Talk:Number One
Article location/name? shouldnt this be listed under Unnamed USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) personnel, seems to me it fits the criteria. --Alan del Beccio 15:57, 25 Nov 2005 (UTC) :I think the list is just a remedy if we have no other "simple" way of naming an article about a person. This one has a pretty unique and identifiable name and more backstory than most persons on that list, so I see no reason to move this. There could still be a link from that page to this, though. -- Cid Highwind 16:32, 25 Nov 2005 (UTC) ::There has been some debate as to how an officer with the mere rank of lieutenant can become the first officer of a starship. The reason for this is that, when Gene Roddenberry first created Star Trek, the first rank structure he employed was based on the system used in the US Army, rather than naval ranks we have come to associate with Starfleet. ::This is just wrong. The highest grade of Lt in the Army is a First Lt, who holds the equiv. rank of a Lt JG in the Navy, which ::ranks below a Lt. :::I'm not sure what you mean by "this is just wrong"; the fact is that's how Roddenberry had the rank structure when the series was created. Were you just making an observation, stating your dislike on the rank structure? :D --From Andoria with Love 13:41, 20 March 2006 (UTC) ::::The Army was never mentioned in relation to "The Cage" ranks -- in fact, a naval lieutenant (which Number One presumably was) is equivalent to an Army captain -- meaning that assigning her an Army lieutenant rank would place here even lower in the scale than a Starfleet lieutenant rank. Doesn't this compound the problem more? ::::BTW, other lieutenants, like Maxwell Burke, have been shown to be starship first officers before, albeit in times of duress or attrition. (IIRC, Lt. Cmdr. Data named Lt. Worf as his first officer in "Gambit", also do to the loss of higher ranking personnel) -- Captain M.K.B. 15:39, 20 March 2006 (UTC) Speculation: Number One's Rank as X-O It is merely a thought, but considering there were a number of casualities and injured from their mission to Rigel, could Number One have been the acting First Officer? Granted, there wasn't anyone specifically mentioned except for Pike's yeoman. If the true X-O was merely injured and would have recovered at the medical facilities on Vega, then Pike and others wouldn't make as big of a deal of the X-O as they did with the yeoman's death. Plus, it may explain Number One feeling left out of the original landing party as she may been the only one left who wasn't injured or dead with the most experience.Scott E. Hileman :That seems to be a possibility and it reconciles some problems. Perhaps the background note should be edited to allow for this? Jaf 23:36, 21 March 2006 (UTC)Jaf ::Do we actually need all these far fetched brittish 18th century speculations, and dialogue nitpicking speculations in this article. So what if a lieutenant served as a first officer. I don't see anything in Trek to state command personnel with the rank of lieutenant cannot serve as XOs. If it's good enough for Captain Ransom to have a lieutenant as an XO for five years without promoting the rank, why wouldn't it be good enough for Pike? Only problem here seems to be fan-preconceptions, which shouldn't be even noted in MA. --Pseudohuman 07:12, 26 May 2008 (UTC) :::I agree. It seems to go rather overboard on a point that isn't inconsistent with canon.– Cleanse 07:24, 26 May 2008 (UTC) ---- For future reference, here's what was removed: :There has been some debate as to how an officer with the mere rank of lieutenant can become the first officer of a starship. A likely reason for this is that, when Gene Roddenberry first created ''Star Trek, the first rank structure he employed was based on the system used in the 18th and 19th century British navy, in which a ship's second in command was generally a First Lieutenant in the sense of the most senior lieutenant, rather than 20th century naval ranks we have come to associate with Starfleet. For this reason, it can be assumed that Starfleet's rank system during this time was temporarily changed from the system used during the 22nd century and was then changed back sometime prior to the events of , although this has not been officially established. :It is also possible that there was no alteration in rank structure and that Number One simply showed an extraordinary aptitude for command - even at a relatively low rank - and thus was able to assume the position of XO. It is also possible that her rank was actually Lieutenant Commander and that Pike simply made an error in referring to her as a Lieutenant. :''Alternatively, in Starfleet, it may be acceptable to refer to someone as either commander or lieutenant when their rank is lieutenant commander. On at least two occasions after he was promoted to lieutenant commander, Geordi La Forge was referred to as Lieutenant. Once by Natasha Yar in , "''Commander, advise Lieutenant La Forge that shields are still below minimum." Picard also addresses Geordi this way in , when he said "What are you suggesting, Lieutenant?" For the record, I re-added the first few sentences. The behind-the-scenes explanation for it is because of the different rank system used during the first pilot (as explained in The Making of Star Trek, among other references). --From Andoria with Love 08:01, 26 May 2008 (UTC) ::But, isn't the so called "different rank system" only a different duty uniform insignia system, aren't the actual ranks exactly the same. Or is there canon-evidence they are not? --Pseudohuman 09:43, 26 May 2008 (UTC) Number One's Name I think the speculation on why Number One is referred to as Number One is looking in the wrong direction. It is somewhat well known that Gene Roddenberry based the character of Captain Kirk loosely on C.S. Forester's Horatio Hornblower. There are a few places in those novels where a ship's second in command is called "Number One." For example, in the first book of the Hornblower series, "Mr. Midshipman Hornblower," there is a chapter in which Horblower is going ashore for a duel with a fellow officer. As he prepares to leave the ship, another fellow officer says to Hornblower, "Number One's letting us have the second cutter," a reference to the ship's first lieutenant and second in command. This raises the same question about the Hornblower books that is raised about Pike's Number One; why is she only a lieutenant? It appears from the Horblower books that the British Navy of the early 19th century only had three officer ranks: midshipman, lieutenant, and captain. Interestingly enough, this scheme fits perfectly with the rank insignia used on the sleeves of starfleet uniforms in the two TOS pilots. -- medleyj Here's an idea about Number One's name that I find amusing. Perhaps her last name is Chapel, as she bares more than a passing resemblance to a certain Starfleet nurse who could be her younger sister. Just an idea. Star Trek never blanched at reusing actors to play different characters. And there's never been any suggestion of relationship before, unless Sarek can be expected to explain why his twin brother commands a Romulan ship. I just like the Lieutenant Chapel idea, and its as good a theory as any. --newlifeform Army to Navy It doesn't make any sense that she would have been a Lt. XO based on Army rankings. Second and First Lt. are equiv. to Ensign and Lt. JG in the Navy, respectively. A full Naval Lt. would be a Captain in the Army. - 07:05, 27 July 2006 (UTC) :You would be right, except that everyone on the ship in that episode was under the army system. In that case, Captain Pike would be right above Lt., since it was an army rank Captain (equivalent to Navy full Lt.) right above an army rank Lt. --OuroborosCobra talk 07:09, 27 July 2006 (UTC) ::Another explanation might be that Roddenberry was using the Royal Navy's rank system as seen in the initial "Hornblower" series. This thought just occurred to me, because it seems odd that the producers would have gone to such pains to show a "nautical" starship (e.g.: bosun's whistle, yeomen, "Steady as we go", "You have the helm"), only to use the US Army's ranks. Another possibility is that Pike was not a captain by rank, but only by courtesy. --GNDN 17:34, 17 December 2006 (UTC) I'm new here, but I'm more than a little tempted to correct (IMHO) the statement about Number One's rank reflecting army rank. Unless there is a citation out there that supports the statement, I find it very hard to believe that there was any intention to use army ranks. Everything else about the Enterprise is naval in nature. The most relevant example is the existence in The Cage of the presence of a yoeman, a role that is specific to the navy. I see a lot more merit in the argument that the rank structure reflects the British and/or Age of Sail system. In the Age of Sail, it was common for a lieutenant to serve as first officer, or even to command a smaller vessel. --newlifeform NBC vs Number 1 I read somewhere (I can't remember where) that NBC wanted to get rid of the Number 1 character, not because she was a woman XO of a starship, but because of her (Majel Barrett Roddenberry) relationship with Gene Roddenberry. Essentially the network viewed it as a conflict of interests for Gene Roddenberry to cast his then girlfriend as a lead character in his new TV show. Does anybody know more about this? 14:48, 28 August 2006 (UTC) :This was discussed in "Inside Star Trek: The Real Story". --GNDN 14:11, 22 December 2006 (UTC) Most references still blame NBC executives for scotching a woman second-in-command. But I recall from the TOS Complete First Seasons DVDs, that their objection arose from focus group research, especially female panelists.Toddsschneider 23:26, 24 December 2008 (UTC) ::I remember that, too. Apparently the women in the group found Number One too willing to please or trying to hard to be "one of the guys" or something. The network also wanted Spock dropped because he looked like a devil. Gene chose to keep Spock and lose Number One, but cast Majel Barrett as Nurse Chapel. --From Andoria with Love 23:51, 24 December 2008 (UTC) La Forge's rank as Lieutenant Commander The mention of La Forge being called Lieutenant, rather than Lieutenant Commander, on "Yesterday's Enterprise" by Tasha Yar could be due to the fact that, in that episode, they were in an alternate universe and La Forge may never have been promoted to Lieutenant Commander. If that is so then should this be mentioned? Just to clarify things? I would add a mention of it, but it's been a while since I saw that episode and It's possible that he could have also been called Lieutenant Commander in the episode, which would prove he was promoted in the alternative time line. Jelx 05:28, 26 April 2007 (UTC) :I've checked and Geordi is still wearing Lt. Commander ranks in "Yesterday's Enterprise" so personally, I don't think it hurts and I think it does give a decent possible explanation as to why Pike might have called Number One "Lieutenant" instead of "Commander" or something along those lines. And I promise I'm not saying this just cause I wrote that! LOL --leandar 14:25, 26 April 2007 (UTC) ::Before we get too far down this road, we have an explanation already. --OuroborosCobra talk 15:23, 26 April 2007 (UTC)